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Thursday, April 05, 2007

Susan: Pizza Dough



Whenever someone tells me they want to try baking bread but have no idea where to begin, I suggest they start with pizza. This is the equivalent of learning to bake biscuits or scones before attempting Danish pastry and éclairs.

The thought of baking your own bread can be a little frightening. It is time consuming, and numerous things can go wrong. But pizza dough is not temperamental or fussy. The actual hands-on work takes less than 10 minutes, and you can let it rise for as little or as long as you like. It is extremely difficult to ruin and will never let you down. Pizza dough disasters are rare.

Life is complicated, but making homemade pizza is not. Basically you mix up some dough, and a couple of hours later you pull a gorgeous, piping hot pizza from the oven.

At least that's what I thought last month — before A Year In Bread. I've never analyzed homemade pizza this much in my life.

There is a fundamental danger in becoming involved in a project with two people who are older and wiser than you. Dealing with them is like playing chess with an expert. The expert is thinking six moves ahead, while you are simply trying to remember which direction the horse is allowed to go. When Kevin and Beth readily agreed to my suggestion that I post my pizza article last, I should have known better.

I wasn't worried about my recipe, since I've been making fantastic homemade pizzas for years. I mainly wanted to go last because I'm always behind with everything, and figured I could use the extra time (case in point — I'm writing this on Wednesday night). But I will admit to having a slight case of stage fright. The enthusiastic response to A Year In Bread has been amazing, and expectations are obviously high. The pressure of going first was just too much. And the second baker's article would have to be at least as good as the. . . Oh no. The third baker was going to have to come up with something really special. No wonder they let me go last. (Stop laughing, you two.)

I panicked, but only a little. Then I saw Kevin's pizza. And this photo of Beth's on our Flickr group. I stared in disbelief. These pizzas looked incredible. They actually made them? My confidence level plummeted, and I tortured myself by looking back and drooling at their photos every few hours for days.

Meanwhile, a cursory glance through a few magazines and cookbooks revealed that not only was my pizza dough recipe remarkably similar to everyone else's, but all of my unique ideas for toppings had already been done. (I didn't dare Google anything.) I was obviously an unoriginal, homemade pizza loser. The slight panic turned into a full-blown attack.

I'll skip the pathetic details. Let's just say that 15 pizzas later, I'm right back where I started. Making homemade pizza is not complicated — and I make fantastic pizza. You can, too. So let's get started.

Susan's Straightforward Pizza Dough Recipe
Makes approximately two 11- to 12-inch pizzas or four 7- to 8-inch pizzas.

Lamb Salami Pizza

This is a simple recipe (don't let all these paragraphs scare you away) that produces a crisp, chewy, and flavorful dough. It takes less than three hours from first step to first bite — which means you can decide at four o'clock on Saturday that you want pizza for dinner and be eating well before seven. That said, it should be noted that my 15 experimental pizzas were not made under exacting scientific conditions in a lab. They were made in real life, which we all know is far from perfect. One time the two-hour rise turned into three. Another time the 10-minute rest period lasted 45 minutes. The good news? Every single pizza still came out tasting (and looking) great.

You can pile on the toppings like I did in the pizza above (it's loaded with a thick layer of my Super Simple Homegrown Tomato Sauce, mushrooms, mozzarella, pecorino romano, and homegrown lamb salami) or simply brush the dough with some flavored olive oil and scatter on a little cheese. The lighter the toppings, the more the crust will rise while baking. If you are really going to load up your pizza with toppings, you might want to make the crust a bit thicker, as the middle of the pizza may get soggy if it's too thin.

Ideally, you want the dough to be between 74 and 78 degrees F (23 to 26 C) while it is rising. If your home is very cold, you should probably let the dough rise longer if you have the time. You can also start with warmer water. During the summer, when our non-air-conditioned house is in the upper 80s (with humidity to match), I still let the dough rise for two hours, but I use cold water. You can also store your flour in the freezer to help cool down the dough (and keep your flour fresher).

I use bread flour when I make pizza, as it creates a crisper crust (but you can make this dough with all-purpose flour). I'm also a big proponent of organically produced (and locally grown) ingredients. I use Heartland Mill organic flours, which I buy in 50-pound bags that I special order at the local natural foods store. Organic flour costs more than conventional, but not much. And compared to the price of a purchased pizza (or any bread for that matter), using top quality ingredients when you're baking is a bargain. Look for organic flours in the bulk section of independently owned natural foods stores, or at places like Whole Foods and Wild Oats.

Herb, Oil, & Cheese

Do you have a sourdough starter living in your fridge? Tossing some into your dough will make this pizza even more wonderful. You'll find instructions below.

Note: For very small amounts, my beloved digital kitchen scale isn't accurate enough; in fact, few kitchen scales are accurate at such detail. You're better off measuring things like yeast and salt in teaspoons or mililiters.

bread flour 3 c 700 ml 15 oz 424 g (plus a little more added while kneading the dough)
instant yeast 1 tsp 5 ml 1/8 oz 3 g
salt 2 tsp 10 ml 3/8 oz 10 g
lukewarm water (about 90F, 32C) 1 1/3 c 315 ml 11 1/2 oz 325 g

Place the bread flour in a large bowl. Stir in the yeast and salt. Add the water and stir until a soft, but not sticky, dough forms.

Turn the dough onto a floured surface and knead it for 3 minutes, sprinkling with a little flour each time it sticks to your hands or the counter. The dough should be quite soft. (Just knead it by hand. It's easier and faster than getting out your big electric mixer. Yes, Kevin, this means even you.)

Liberally sprinkle the mixing bowl with flour, place the dough back in it, and sprinkle the top of the dough with flour. Cover with a damp tea towel or cloth napkin and set in a warm place for two hours.

After about an hour, place a baking stone on the lowest rack in the oven, and set the temperature at 500 degrees. (You never want to put a cold baking stone into a hot oven as it may crack.)

Turn the risen dough out onto a lightly floured surface, and divide it into two or four pieces. (I use a pastry scraper, sometimes called a dough scraper or bench scraper, which is a handly little gizmo that is also great for cleaning off my butcher block countertop). Flatten each piece of dough into a disk and let them rest for 10 to 15 minutes.

There are many ways to shape pizza dough; experiment to find what works for you. Smaller pizzas are easier to shape than larger ones. I simply hold the disk of dough in front of me by one edge and use gravity and my fingers to gently stretch it into a larger circle. I then lower it onto a wooden pizza peel that has been dusted with plenty of cornmeal, and finish stretching it into the shape and thickness I want, pinching together any tears. You can also set it on a rimless baking sheet (or directly onto your pizza pan if you aren't using a baking stone).

Beth and Kevin recommend creating (and baking) your pizzas on a sheet of parchment. I'd never thought to do this, but it makes sense, especially with heavily topped pizzas — and in warmer weather when the dough wants to stick to the peel.

Don't worry if your pizzas are not perfect circles. The more oddly shaped and rustic looking the better, in my opinion. If you like a thick edge on your pizza, go around the outside of the circle and fold the dough over, pressing it down and sealing it with your fingers.

Pizzas in Oven

Top your pizza however you like, gently shake the peel to make sure the pizza is not stuck to it, and then carefully side the pizza onto the hot baking stone. This is done in one quick move, and it can take some practice, but all mistakes are edible. My baking stone is about 14 inches by 15 inches and will hold one 12-inch pizza or two 8-inch pizzas.

Bake until the crust is golden and the cheese has started to brown, about 8 to 15 minutes. (If I know I'll be freezing and reheating a pizza later, I undercook it by a couple of minutes.) Assemble the next pizza when the first one is nearly done. Unlike Kevin's and Beth's recipes, the finished, uncooked pizzas do not rise at all but go straight into the oven.

Use your pizza peel to remove the pizza from the oven, or just slide it straight onto a pizza pan. I use an aluminum blade peel for removing pizzas and breads from the oven. The thin edge easily picks them up, and the long handle is really nice.

If a pizza is really loaded with cheese and toppings, I let it rest two or three minutes before cutting into it. If I'm making several pizzas so there will be leftovers for the freezer, I let them cool on stacked wire racks. (These inexpensive, ingenious things are indispensible — especially during the holiday baking season). Nothing slices pizza like a good pizza wheel, but I've found that small, lightly topped pizzas can be easily cut into appetizer-size pieces with a pair of scissors (I always keep at least two pairs of decent but cheap scissors from the dollar store in my kitchen).

I'll tackle toppings in the next few days, including what just might be a thoroughly unique idea (yep, I even had the guts to Google it). I'll also write about my experience with the whole wheat version of this dough that I made the other day using 100% white whole wheat flour.

Susan's Sourdough Starter Pizza Dough Recipe
Makes approximately two 12-inch pizzas or four 8-inch pizzas

Sourdough Pizza

I've found that adding some sourdough starter to my pizza dough improves the flavor and texture. This is also a great way to use up starter if you need to refresh your container of it but don't want to bake bread. Sourdough starters are easy to make. The initial process takes a few days, but the actual hands-on-work is minimal. Recipes for sourdough starters abound in cookbooks and online. I made my 5-year-old starter using the recipe in Bread Alone by Daniel Leader (my favorite bread book). The easiest thing to do, though, is to get some from somebody else. Ask around; you might be surprised by who has one living in their fridge. And for those of you interested in sourdough breads, we'll definitely be baking some here in the coming months.

You can make my Straightforward Pizza Dough recipe (but reducing the amount of water to 1 cup 240 ml 8 oz 224 g) and simply toss 1 cup 240 ml 8 oz 224 g of sourdough starter straight from the fridge into the mix. But it's best if you add a little flour and water to your cup of starter and let it sit awhile:

sourdough starter 1 cup 240 ml 8 oz 224 g
water 1/4 cup 60 ml 2 oz 56 g
bread flour 1/4 cup 60 ml 1 1/4 oz / 32 g

Combine starter, water, and bread flour in a small bowl. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit at room temperature for 8 to 10 hours (or less if that's all the time you have). Proceed with my Straightforward Pizza Dough recipe, but reduce the amount of water to 1 cup 240 ml 8 oz 224 g.

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57 Comments:

Blogger kitchenmage said...

I know what you mean about going last, once I thought going first was scary, and then I read Kevin's pizza post and I knew it was a high bar.
For someone who got stuck batting last, however, you sure did come up with a simple and quick crust that turns out a gorgeous looking pizza.

I love the purity of this recipe too - not even any oil. The last photo is really mouth-watering. (I had a bigger version handy so I posted it at flickr. It's so delicious looking in detail, those onions...!

4/06/2007 4:55 AM  
Anonymous Mary said...

Your pizza looks great, and I think I'll try your dough just because it has no oil in it. Lamb sausage?! I'm drooling.

Mary
www.ceresandbacchus.com

4/06/2007 7:47 AM  
Anonymous ~DanaB~ said...

WhooHoo, it DOES keep getting better--depending on what you're looking for in a pizza dough recipe. This is a HUGE success already,this YearInBread thang, in that we can clearly see there are FANTASTIC benefits to having three different folks sharing recipes and tips!
Thanks for YOURS, Susan and thanks to Mage*bows* and Kevin as well. This is GREAT!
Now...I've got to decide which to begin with!

~~

4/06/2007 8:18 AM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

This looks wonderful. I now have way too much that I want to bake this weekend--this pizza, Kevin's hot cross buns, and Beth's corrupted version of Susan's oatmeal toasting bread. Can I do this AND get my other work done? How do some of you folks bake so much and still do other things?

Susan, can you describe how you freeze and reheat the cooked pizzas?

As for stunning photos of other people's pizzas: I'm not much of a photographer of anything. I look at other folks' incredible photos on the flickr group and protect my ego by insisting that they use professional food stylists.

4/06/2007 8:44 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Beth,
I vote we make Susan go first on the next round so she won't feel we've taken advantage of her.

4/06/2007 9:53 AM  
Blogger clarexican said...

ALWAYS look fabulous! :)

I am loving bread alone too!

4/06/2007 10:04 AM  
Anonymous denise said...

Love this site!

I've used Susan's pizza dough from her Farmgirl blog and it was the best pizza I've made so far!

I'm looking forward to trying the others here though.

Can't wait to see what's in store for the rest of the year!

Thanks!
Denise

4/06/2007 12:16 PM  
Anonymous courtney said...

I've made your pizza dough several times in the past and it has always turned out great. Anytime we have pizza it is usually a last minute thing (read my husband says late in the afternoon we should ORDER? pizza [does he not know me at all?]). So your dough recipe is wonderful because we can still eat at a normal hour. Everytime I make it he turns to me half way through and says "you're awesome".

So Susan from my husband to you "you're awesome".

4/06/2007 1:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait to try this, and I don't even have to think about it for another two hours. I would love to put the onions on, but I might have to just put them on my piece. This looks great! Thanks for another great pizza dough to try. judyinktown

4/06/2007 1:47 PM  
Anonymous Farmgirl Susan said...

Hi KM,
Thanks. This recipe is definitely basic, though I have to admit that until we decided to do pizza for A Year In Bread, I hadn't made it without adding the sourdough starter in years.

I used to add that ubiquitous 2 Tablespoons of olive oil to my dough but for some reason (years ago) I stopped, and apparently I didn't miss it.

I am loving how those sliced red onions came out. I've never put them on a pizza before. I did some fun experimenting with these pizzas, which was one of my goals for the project--not only to learn new stuff, but to move out of my comfort zones.

I'll be putting up a post in the next few days that talks about toppings in general and describes what all I put on that red onion pizza.

Hi Mary,
Thanks. Well, actually that's lamb salami, though I suppose it could be called summer sausage (and Kevin will agree since he told me that technically it's not salami). Anyway, LOL, it's really good. A very simple recipe I created and have made up for us when we bring lambs in for processing--all natural, no nitrates or preservatives or anything. I do also make pizzas with ground lamb which are really good, too.

Hi danab,
You're certainly welcome. It sure is nice to know that we're already a huge success! I think it's going to be really fun trying out each other's recipes--and hearing how all of you do with them. In fact, midway during my pathetic pizza panic, I told Beth & Kevin I wanted to quit A Year In Bread and just be one of the breadies who gets to try all the recipes!

I can't decide which one to try first either, though I have to admit that right now I'm a teensy bit tired of pizza (geez I never thought I'd actually say that, and no, I didn't eat all 15 of them).

Hi Oopsydeb,
You do have a lot of baking planned for this weekend. I guess you'd better do the hot cross buns first and go from there.

As far as how we bake and still do other things? I can't speak for Beth and Kevin (though I'm pretty sure they're both better at time management than I am--maybe it's an age thing and I'll get better at it someday), but I will admit that when it comes to choosing between, say, baking bread or dusting, it's not a difficult decision to make. : )

I'm hoping to write some sort of mini post about reheating leftover pizza one of these days, because I'm kind of obsessive about it (I also think it is one of the most wonderful things on the planet). As far as freezing it, I usually cut the pizzas in half and then stack them with layers of waxed paper inbetween (it's easy to cut frozen pizzas into smaller pieces--just put them on a cutting board and use a large knife to cut "down"--as opposed to "sawing it.") Then I wrap the stack in foil (I use those really long rolls) and put it all in a 2-gallon zipper freezer bag (these are great for holding large loaves of bread and can be rinsed out and reused several times).

But the other night it was so late and I was so out of it (over three dozen lambs born in less than a month will do that to a girl, LOL--the other day I found a bag of crackers I'd put "away" in the fridge) that I didn't realize until the next day that I'd just tossed all the leftover pizzas straight into a 2-gallon freezer bag. Well I reheated some the past two nights and it was just fine. Leftover pizza is forgiving! : )

As far as fabulous food photos--bear in mind a lot of the photos you see on blogs and other websites (and in magazines and books, too) have been severely edited and tweaked using programs like PhotoShop. I just finally learned to do a few basic things (like click on Automatically Adjust Exposure) and I generally don't do anything at all for the outdoor food and farm photos I post on my blog, but even some of my food pics are tweaked. I forgot to use the indoor light setting when I took the photos of that pizza with the red onions, and Beth went in and magically fixed it all for me.

Kevin,
That won't work. If I go first next time, I'll have to start baking for it like tomorrow already. I need recovery time.

Hi Clare,
Thanks--and yay! : )

Hi Denise,
Thanks. I can't wait to see what's in store for the rest of the year either. : )

Hi Courtney,
LOLOL, I'm awesome. I love it. How cool is that? Kevin, Beth--did you two get that? Just checking.

Hi Judy,
I love how enthused you are about all these pizzas. And I think sprinkling a few sliced onion rings on your piece(s) would work fine. Looking forward to hearing how you like this recipe.

4/06/2007 3:51 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Susan,
Jeez! You complain about going last and then don't want to go first. Ah well, I guess that's why you're in management.{g}

4/06/2007 5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We just finished eating one of the two pizzas from this week's dough recipe. Yippee!! I have another pizza for the freezer for one of those days when I am busy doing one of the many other arts that I enjoy. I do consider cooking an art. Most people who like to paint, sew, knit, garden, you name it, also like to cook. I like all of the above and a few more also.

This crust was different from the other two in that the bottom of the crust was sort of cracker like. I have had pizza like that before, but I don't remember where. It was good with the toppings I used and held up well to them. I used a jar of fire roasted peppers from Harry & David that I had (peppers, tomatoes, kalamata olives), extra kalamata olives, mushrooms, prosciutto, fresh mozzarella, & parmesan. I do have a question about the fresh mozzarella since that was the first time I had used it. Will it make the pizza a little runny? I had a little juice with mine this time which I have never had before. It was still yummy even with the juice. Just had to be careful about the runoff down your arm. lol

The lamb summer sausage sounds wonderful. My sister made a spread with beef summer sausage that I bet you could make with the lamb. Cream cheese with chives, summer sausage, drained dill pickle. Combine in the food processor till spreading consistency. She said it was delicious on crackers. I have a small stick in the freezer that someone gave us, and I am going to try it. Just have to guess at how much, but I just start with a little and keep adding till it's to my taste.

Well, I have typed my little fingers off here and I guess I need to wrap my cooled pizza for the freezer. I do plan to make the Hot Cross Buns tomorrow evening, so I still have some fun ahead. I have loved making the pizzas, and I still have my polaroids of last weeks pizzas sitting here on my desk. You might get to see them before the year is up. ha

Can't wait to see what's up for next week!!!

judyinktown

4/06/2007 8:46 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Judi,
I've come to the conclusion that you're a force of nature. So please quit making pizza and do something about the weather. It's too damned cold.

4/06/2007 9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I would like to do something about the weather. My neighbor said that he saw people stopping and taking pictures of our yard. It is a riot of color. The azaleas are in full bloom (red, pink, purple, white), plus I have wisteria and dogwoods in bloom all over the woods out back. It is glorious and smells like heaven. I just know this cold snap is going to make it all brown, waaaaaaaaa!

I guess you can't live in Knoxville without dogwood winter, blackberry winter, and one my son heard about last year when we had a cold snap in May was called linen breeches winter. I guess they called it that because you should be wearing linen breeches, but you had to pull out your wool. lol

judyinktown

4/07/2007 12:20 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Judi,
My thermometer was reporting 32 degrees at 11:00 tis morning.

4/07/2007 2:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mine said 28 sometime during the night, and 38 when I left for Sam's. I think the temperature varies a lot here depending on where you are; I live out Alcoa Highway not too far from the airport. My azaleas look bad, and I'm so sad.

Oh well, one thing about it Kevin, wait a day or two and it will warm up. Hiho! I'm making chicken and dumplin's, just the ticket for a cold day. All the grandkiddos are coming for supper! We will celebrate, cold or not! I'll get their little tummies warmed up, and I'll even let their moms and dads eat. ha

judyinktown

4/07/2007 3:23 PM  
Blogger Christy said...

I hope this doesn't post twice, it didn't seem to work the first time.

I had a question about your sourdough starter. I'm reading Bread Alone and he talks about the chef and the levain. Which one of these do you consider the starter? My husband loves sourdough and we've had no luck finding a good one, I'd love to get a starter going and try to make my own.

4/07/2007 6:48 PM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

Judi, you're my hero. I think you're going to be the AYIB honor student.

Susan, thanks for the detailed response. As it turns out it won't be quite the baking weekend I had hoped for. My paying job took more time than expected today. I just mixed up your dough for a late pizza dinner tonight. I'll try to make bread tomorrow (I haven't made any for several weeks now, which is troublesome since I instituted a no store-bought bread rule January). Hot cross buns will have to wait, but I WILL make them. Don't worry, though, I did not sacrifice baking for dusting.

Thanks for the info on freezing pizzas. I'll try to put some in the freezer soon and then patiently (tap tap tap) await the reheating post.

As for photos, I do try to do the quick adjust, but framing, angles, etc of original shots just ain't my strength. I'm okay with that. Plenty of food porn online for me to enjoy.

As for the dough, this one didn't feel, well, as "alive" as the other two when I was kneading it, so we'll see. My partner actually participated this time (He measured the flour by weight instead of volume without a direct prompt; I was so proud of him.)

Feeling behind in AYIB class, but still having fun!
Debbie

4/07/2007 8:00 PM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

Yum.
We just had our Susan pizza. We (over)loaded it with tomato sauce, mushrooms, onions, roasted red peppers, green olives, and mozarella. It was good, but a little soggy in the middle (note the overload comment above). The crust around the edge was fantastic, so we'll be careful with toppings for our second go around. Except for the small center, crust was crisp, a little less bready than the first two doughs. (Note: note necessarily a good or bad in comparison, just a comparison).

One good thing for me on this pizza baking month--I've rediscovered what I like in a pizza. I had come to think I liked only thin, thin, thin crust, almost cracker-like. What I've rediscovered is that I like a crisp bottom crust, but having some good tasting rise in it is wonderful. I think I've had so many bad tasting medium crusts that I convinced myself I didn't like them. Each of these has been outstanding. Thanks AYIB team.

4/07/2007 10:26 PM  
Anonymous wildsheepchase said...

I tried this recipe this evening! It marks a few personal firsts: first time making pizza from scratch, first time using a baking stone, and first time using my new pastry scraper. The end result was delicious, and even gained the approval of my mother and father.

Getting the pizzas into the oven properly will definitely take some practice. The worst part was that there is corn meal eeeeverywhere in my kitchen now, and due to my inexperience at pizza sliding, I had stuff fall off the pizza and bake itself into a black creosote on the baking stone on its maiden voyage. : (

Another mini-issue I encountered was that my dough was still sticky when I started kneeding it. Kneeding sticky dough is a pet peeve of mine, and I wasn't sure if the instructions were telling me that the stickiness was okay or not.

My first pizza had tomato sauce, with portabello mushrooms, green peppers, tomatoes, and cheddar and mozzerella cheeses. The second pizza had a pesto sauce, sliced tomatoes, broccoli, and mozzarella (the inspiration for this one was Trader Joe's Pesto Pizza).

4/08/2007 2:29 AM  
Blogger Christy said...

I'm having trouble getting my crust crispy on the bottom. I've tried a few recipes but none of them are crispy on the bottom. My husband like a cripsy bottom. Is it my pizza stone isn't hot enough? Could it be the flour I'm using? I'm using whole wheat pastry flour, do I need a flour with more protein?

4/08/2007 12:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Debbie you are a doll for encouraging me. Thank you!

For those with woes concerning your pizza stone getting messed up, well, mine is black, started out almost white; but I am told that is what it is supposed to do. I have had mine for a number of years, and it is like an iron skillet when it gets seasoned well.

The chicken n' dumplin' supper threw me off a bit, and I haven't made the Hot Cross Buns yet, but I'm doing it if it is the last thing I do today. I noticed Kevin, that your recipe called for putting the dough in the fridge overnight. Can I shortcut that?

judyinktown

4/08/2007 2:10 PM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

Christy,
What temperature are you setting your oven at when you use the pizza stone, and how long are you letting it preheat? We set ours between 475 and 525 and preheat it for a minimum of one hour. I think both high temp and long preheat are necessary for the crispiest of crusts on a stone. I have no idea about the impact of flour on crispiness.

4/08/2007 2:24 PM  
Anonymous wildsheepchase said...

It isn't the color variance I was/am concerned about, it's more about being able to get the baked-on black creosote-type stuff off, to make the stone somewhat flat again–particularly if I'm only "allowed" to use warm water to wash it with. Last night I used a tuffie pad and lots of elbow grease until it was mostly off (although the stone is still stained in those places. Ultimately I think the solution to my problem is going to be being able to place things on/off of the stone with a bit more finesse, as I get practice.

4/08/2007 7:40 PM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

Wildsheepchase,
I just started using parchament paper for my pizzas with my last few. It's made a world of difference for me. No corn meal used, so no corn meal mess. Easier in and easier out of the oven.

4/08/2007 8:12 PM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

This is off pizza topic, but I just made your oatmeal toasting bread Susan. These were certainly the prettiest loaves I have made, and the taste is great too! Just had a piece of toast with butter and honey. Yum.

4/08/2007 10:30 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Christy,
The chef is the starter. And we've got making a sour dough from scratch on our list.

Oopsydeb,
The crust makes or breaks the pizza as far as I'm concerned.

Wildsheepchase,
Congratulations!

I haven't made Susan's crust yet, so I can't answer the question of whether or not it should be sticky.

Christy,
Make sure your oven's very hot (475F - 525F) and preheat it and the stone for at least an hour.

4/09/2007 2:11 PM  
Blogger Christy said...

Kevin, thanks for the answers. I'm going to get my chef going. I've been preheating my pizza stone at 500 for 45 minutes or so. I'll up the temp and preheat longer.

4/09/2007 4:08 PM  
Anonymous courtney said...

Wildsheepchase,
I just got my pizza stone in January, so I am not as experienced as the team here, but what I have noticed is that I just leave mine in my oven as I bake other things. Then eventually it will be easy to just scrape off with a metal spatuala, or other thin metal object. The only down side is sometimes it smells like I am burning something.

4/09/2007 5:03 PM  
Blogger ejm said...

Those red onions look great! I'm glad you got over feeling inadequate. Clearly it was needless.

I find the slight differences in pizza dough recipes to be fascinating. I usually add a bit of olive oil and wholewheat flour to our pizza dough (and I use unbleached all-purpose flour rather than bread flour... but I was just reading in "Piano Piano Pieno" by Susan McKenna Grant that allpurpose flour in Canada is much stronger than most allpurpose flour in USA. As I recall, she said our all-purpose was very much like some USA bread flours!! She wrote that she adds cake and pastry flour to Canadian all-purpose flour to mimic the flour she buys in Italy!

-Elizabeth, in Canada

P.S. I was just doing a link check of my site and discovered that not only was your pita-pita-i-too-much-eata page moved (probably ages ago, eh?) but you three have started this wonderful project.

4/09/2007 5:08 PM  
Anonymous farmgirl said...

Hi Everybody,

My apologies for not answering your questions sooner. I sat down late last night to reply and could not for the life of me get the site to open. So I took it as a sign and went to bed. : )

Hi Judy,
Hmmm. A cracker-like bottom crust? Interesting. That's not a description that's ever come to my mind when eating this pizza crust.

So after reading your comment the other night, I re-heated some frozen pizza (it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it). The bottom of the crust had a very crisp layer (which I find gets crisper when re-heated), but to me it seemed more like the crust on a loaf of sourdough bread--crisp but chewy, too. I wonder if your crust was thinner than mine.

Of course if 40 people made this exact pizza dough recipe, we'd probably get 40 different pizzas. That's what is so fun about this project. I love hearing how everyone's pizzas are turning out.

Re fresh mozzarella. I've used various different kinds before and have never had it make the pizza runny or liquidy. If you put fresh, uncooked mushrooms straight on the pizza, that could account for the liquid. I always cook mine first in a skillet.

Hi Christy,
Yeah, it gets kind of confusing when you start learning about the various kinds of "starters:" chef, levain, biga, poolish, etc.

Kevin is correct--the thing that lives in the refrigerator and that I call the "starter" (just to make things easier) is technically a chef. When you want to make sourdough bread, you take some or all of that starter (depending on your recipe) and add flour and/or water to it.

When I am making pain au levain based on the recipe in Bread Alone, I take the container of chef out of the fridge the night before I plan to bake, stir some flour into it, and let it sit on the counter until morning. Then I scoop out 2 cups of what has now become the levain and use that in my recipe. I add some flour and water to the remaining levain in the container, thus turning it back into a chef.

I highly recommend both the "regular" sourdough starter and the rye sourdough starter in Bread Alone (click on the link to our Amazon store in the upper right corner of the page to read more about this fabulous book). I made batches of each of them over 5 years ago, and they are still going strong. In fact just last night I made three gorgeous loaves of pain au levain. Click here to see what this bread looks like.

Starters are very easy to make, though they do take a little time to get going at first (usually a few days). And if you don't like the sourdough breads you end up with, you can always experiment and try making a different starter. I've been meaning to try making a new one using a different recipe just for kicks to see what it's like.

Hi Debbie,
Well we can't have you starving to death because you're waiting to find out how to reheat your frozen pizza. Fortunately for you, yesterday I had one of those Duh! moments and remembered that there is a post devoted entirely to reheating leftover pizza on my blog. Not sure if I'll just go in and add a few things or write a separate post here on A Year In Bread (judging by how crazy things have been lately--and that I still need to write about toppings--I'm thinking it'll be the former). But no matter what, you can click here to read "Loving Leftover Pizza."

Glad to hear you enjoyed your pizza! It sounds delish. Yeah, I've had the middle get a little soggy, too when I really went overboard on the toppings. Thanks for the reminder--I added a little note in the article about it.

Okay, I keep thinking how "bready" my pizza is (meaning, to me, a crisp, chewy crust and then fairly light interior with lots of airholes) and now you're saying it's less bready than Kevin's and Beth's. I am intrigued. I really need to try their recipes!

Hi Wildsheepchase,
A big congratulations to you on all those "firsts" in one night! And with delicious results and parental approval. How cool is that? : )

Yeah, the cornmeal can be quite a mess. I would definitely try making and baking your pizzas on parchment. I really must remember to try it myself. Actually, I've been leaving the jar of cornmeal on the counter to remind myself to buy some more. Maybe I should just not buy any and then next time I go to make pizza I'll be forced to use parchment. You never know, it might work. . . : )

Thanks for letting me know about the sticky dough. I re-worded my post to hopefully make it a little more clear. This is a very soft dough, but it shouldn't be sticky. The thing is that the actual amount of flour you'll need for any bread or pizza dough will change according to everything from the type of flour to the weather (remember Beth realizing that she needs to use less water than others because she lives in a foggy valley at the edge of a rainforest?).

So the 3 cups in my recipe should be a place to start. I didn't write out the recipe like I usually would becuase it didn't fit the "format" we're using right now, but what I would have written is something like "3 to 3-1/2 cups of flour." So you'd start by adding 3 cups (or even a little less if you know that you're in a very "wet" area) and then add more little by little as needed, either before you even take it out of the bowl or while you're kneading it.

Wow. The toppings on your pizzas sound fantastic!

Hi Christy,
As already mentioned, a really hot pizza stone will definitely help to make a crisp crust, but the bottom line is that whole wheat flour is a completely different animal than white flour--and no matter how hot your pizza stone or how perfectly you follow the recipe and baking instructions, a 100% whole wheat pizza (or even a 50% whole wheat pizza) will never come out the same (read "as good") as a pizza made with white flour (either all-purpose or bread flour).

Just to prove this, I made my recipe using 100% white whole wheat flour, which is technically whole wheat but is lighter than "regular" whole wheat flour. (Whole wheat pastry flour is finer than regular whole wheat flour.) I hope to have a chance to share some photos and write about this experiment, but the bottom line is that I ended up with a completely different pizza that wasn't nearly as crisp and crunchy and chewy and, well, good. ; )

Unless there is a specific reason you're using whole wheat pastry flour, I would try making a pizza with either all-purpose flour or bread flour. Or even 50% all-purpose or bread flour. I think you'll be amazed at the difference.

Hi again Wildsheepchase,
Honestly, I almost never wet my pizza stone--and I definitely have some of those toppings-slipped-and-turned-to-charcoal episodes. I just scrape it clean with my pastry scraper (also called a bench scraper--there's a link to one in my article in case you or anybody else isn't familiar with this incredibly useful gadget).

You'll definitely get better with practice, and again, I'd try using the parchment.

Hi again Debbie,
You may be off the topic of pizza, but any comment about bread is most definitely "on" topic. : )

So glad you had such tasty success with my oatmeal toasting bread recipe. I need to make some of that myself. It really does make the most wonderful toast. If anybody else is interested, click here for the recipe.

And I think that's it! : )

4/09/2007 5:14 PM  
Anonymous wildsheepchase said...

Thank you, everyone, for the tips and encouragement, as I become accustomed to my new equipment and start to get the hang of baking bread.

Susan, thanks for pointing out the moist air issue that Beth mentioned. It turns out I don't live too far away from her, so I should continue to keep that in mind for the future. It may very well be the reason why I've been having so many problems with sticky dough (including the bagels I made this morning–I had to end up using the pastry scraper on my hands!).

Finally, apologies on my atrocious spelling. "Mozzerella?" "Kneeding?" Forgetting to close my parenthetical comment? Goodness, I don't know what I was smoking, but I'm just glad my writing skills have recovered since then.

4/09/2007 6:51 PM  
Blogger Christy said...

Susan, thank you so much for the info! I was wondering if it was the flour, glad to know that is it. I've been using the whole wheat flour because it is healthier. Maybe pizza just isn't meant to be healthy :).

4/09/2007 8:18 PM  
Blogger ejm said...

I really like that tiny bit of wholewheat in the pizza crust. It adds a nuttiness to the flavour. I find pizza dough made with only white flour to be a little empty in comparison. (But that's probably just me.)

-Elizabeth

P.S. Did you capture your own yeast when you made your starter from Leader's book? (A few years ago, I read a library copy of his book - really liked what I saw - but for some strange reason haven't bought the book nor made any of the recipes. But I do recall seeing his step by step instructions on how to make a starter - just can't remember if it was instructions on how to capture the yeast....)

4/10/2007 1:00 AM  
Blogger oopsydeb said...

Susan,
Thanks for the reheating pizza post! As for the breadiness of the final product, I would describe bready the same way that you do. Now, I did have some concern when I was kneading you're bread. It's entirely possible that something went slightly wrong and our crust was not as "bready" as it typically is when you make the recipe. It's so very important to clear this up that I promise to make more pizza soon.

As for the oatmeal toasting bread, I sent one loaf out to my 11 year old niece. She called to say, "Oh my god! This is the best bread ever!" She particularly liked it toasted with butter and jam. She now wants to learn how to bake bread.

4/10/2007 12:48 PM  
Anonymous Artemis said...

I just found this site today and am already salivating and planning. To aid me in my pizza debauchery I've sent the link to many friends so we can all follow along together.

I'm glad I read Elizabeth's comments regarding the difference in flour between the US and Canada. I guess I'll be forced into making even more pizzas than I originally planned just so I can compare the different flour mixtures. Oh, the horror of it!

4/10/2007 9:40 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Oh, the horror of it!

Poor baby.

4/10/2007 10:13 PM  
Blogger KitchenKiki said...

I don't own a peel & ran out of parchment before I made the second pizza (I used Beth's recipe). I ended up warming my stone slightly, dusting it with cornmeal and putting my pizza together on that. I had no problems.

I got my Pampered Chef stone (12x15)for Christmas and it is already seasoned to almost completely black.

4/10/2007 10:51 PM  
Blogger Kate said...

i would like to say that you guys are amazing -- and can i ask a non-pizza related question, since you're so amazing? : )

how the hell do you score bread? i baked two loaves just now, and i can't score them without deflating them. i used a sharp serated knife (a cheese knife) and cut at about a 45 degree, but it deflated a bit, just like it always does. the loaves turned out pretty flat (however, that was mostly my fault in not properly shaping them), but worse than that, they looked like they'd gotten in a knife fight and lost. what am i doing wrong? do i need to just go get a razor? am i not slashing them quickly enough? i have a hard time slicing clean lines so i think my technique is just off. when i try to slice through, it just pulls the dough rather than cutting it.

help (please)!

4/11/2007 9:15 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Kate,
I use the blade of a utility knife. Holding it between my thumb and forefinger, I rapidly make a slash about 1/2" deep.

4/11/2007 11:34 AM  
Blogger Chel said...

Kate - I've had terrible problems with flat loaves, myself (using the Bread Alone book). I hope the parchment issue will remedy this since I think a lot of my issues came from transferring them to my peel. I had knife issues at the beginning and have dedicated a little razor blade and that helped a lot. I also noticed that when I remembered to spray my bread and have the oven hot enough, that helped. Through various errors, it appears that the scoring+heat+steam made the loaves pop. Now, if I can quit killing them in the transfer process, I'll be set!

Incidentally, the neighbor kid exclaimed that the pain au levain was "the best bread he's ever had" and asks for some everytime my daughter babysits him.

Does anyone know how (if?) I can get RSS feeds for updated comments? I keep forgetting to come check.

4/11/2007 1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been trying to find a starter recipe without yeast. I know I did one back in the 70's with no complications, but they all (the ones I found on the internet) seem to discourage that, saying that you can't be sure of what kind of yeast you will be getting. I thought that is what made the starter from different areas unique. Why wouldn't you want a starter with the wild yeast from your area? I have looked for the recipe that I used back then, but with a lot of moves it has vanished. I don't remember it being complicated. Just took several days for it to develop. Will just water and flour work, or do I need to add a little sugar or honey? Just wanting to experiment a little.

judyinktown

4/11/2007 2:09 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Chel,
"Does anyone know how (if?) I can get RSS feeds for updated comments? I keep forgetting to come check."

At the moment, no.

Judi,
Water and flour is all you need, as I recall, but I haven't made a starter from scratch in a couple of years and at the moment don't have time to look it up.

4/11/2007 3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Kevin, I'm going to try that.

judyinktown

4/11/2007 3:19 PM  
Blogger Ulla said...

I love onions on pizza looks wonderful!

4/11/2007 11:07 PM  
Blogger Kate said...

thanks kevin and chel - i'll try different blades. practice makes perfect i suppose : )

4/12/2007 9:33 AM  
Anonymous gwen said...

This pizza looks so amazing that I'm going to try making it for the first time!

Question: Can you freeze the dough, to reheat and bake at later? If so, what's the ideal way to do it?

Thanks so much -- this is a great idea.

4/13/2007 7:29 PM  
Blogger lucette said...

I made this last night--my 1st time making pizza dough from scratch--and although I suffered some setbacks, it came out great. I can't wait to try the other two versions.
I love this blog!

4/15/2007 12:11 PM  
Blogger ejm said...

Judyinktown, I've just begun my first attempt at capturing wild yeast, using the step by step guide in "Piano Piano Pieno" by Susan McKenna Grant, who lives on a farm in Tuscany. She calls for rye flour, water and a tiny bit of liquid honey on day 1 of her natural starter recipe. The morning of day 2 continues with rye flour for feeding and then switches to unbleached all-purpose flour (which is 11.5 to 12% protein).

-Elizabeth

4/17/2007 2:16 PM  
Anonymous Sue M. said...

I made Susan's recipe before work today and let it rise while I was at work. Just had to throw toppings on and dinner was done!

Susan's recipe made a lovely crust, it was just wonderful.

Everyone loved it!

4/18/2007 7:11 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Sue,
Great! I still haven't gotten to it.

4/18/2007 7:40 PM  
Blogger Ms. Jan said...

I started my Year in Baking sojourn with Susan's pizza last night because I was short on time. I used about 2/3 cup of white whole wheat flour and the crust did come out differently than with the regular flour. I doubt I'll use it again. Following Susan's lead, I topped with a bit of mozzarella and some of my hubby's homemade gouda, fresh herbs, onion, green garlic and picholine olive oil and olives. It was fabulous!!

4/20/2007 7:33 PM  
Anonymous yahaira said...

I made this last night with a sourdough starter...omg! created such a great dough. I love the little tang the starter gave it.

4/21/2007 10:03 AM  
Anonymous farmgirl susan said...

Ack! How did I get so behind replying to comments? Oh wait, 39 bouncing baby lambs might have something to do with it. Am I the only one who still hasn't started any tomato or pepper seeds yet? Since we're rapidly heading toward May, I'm starting to get just a tad bit frantic--and extremely protective of the few frozen bags of peppers and containers of peeled and seeded tomatoes in the freezer from last year's harvest. But I digress. . .

My sincere apologies for going MIA--and many thanks to those who took the time to answer questions in my absence. I love reading all your comments and am just thrilled that so many of you have had delicious success with my pizza dough recipe. I'm hoping to have a chance to leave a 'real' comment here tomorrow. : )

4/21/2007 7:53 PM  
Anonymous Jay said...

Thank you Susan for validating the virtue of simplicity. I've been making pizza for years using a recipe similar to yours and was feeling a bit outclassed by Beth and Kevin's several day approach. I tried Beth's recipe and it came out OK but my family prefers your way.

I do confess to occassionally adding a bit of olive oil and a sugar to the dough.

Never tried lamb on pizza - we like corn and mushrooms :)

Jay

4/26/2007 4:43 AM  
Anonymous Chris M. said...

I know this blog is almost a year old but I can't help but post some info I've learned over the last few months regarding pizza baking. It comes down to one word.. HEAT... Lots of heat. I have been making pretty good pizza in the oven at 560 degrees (the max my oven goes). What I've discovered by reading the methods of others with wood fired outdoor ovens is that for GREAT pizza I was a couple hundred degrees short of nirvana. While a real outdoor oven is in my future I don't have one right now. I turned instead to my back yard grill. It took some work but I can report that baking a pizza at 750 degrees is certainly possible in a propane grill. The difference in crust texture and spring is amazing. You use higher hydration than for lower temperatures so handling the dough takes some practice. Its worth it though. Also, you get your pizzas faster. At 750 degrees they bake in under 5 minutes with a wonderfully blistered top and charred but not burned bottom. I have some photos of the grill and pizzas that have come out of it if anyone is interested. I would also be happy to share the basic recipe.

Love the Year in Bread Blogs!! :)

3/19/2008 11:34 PM  
Anonymous wildsheepchase said...

When I got a new job last August, everything got away from me, including keeping up with A Year in Bread and practicing my pizza making. Today I did my second round to go with the apple pie I baked earlier, including a vegetarian ham/pineapple pizza, and a pesto/tomato pizza again. So far, so good! Although I'm better, I still find it difficult to stretch the dough properly, and get the thing into the oven with panache when it's loaded down with sauce, cheese, and toppings. Just tasted the first one out of the oven and it's good, but I can't wait to try the pineapple one!

Thanks again for having this blog and encouraging newbies like me to do it to it. : )

7/04/2008 9:33 PM  

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